15:42
Gredus
Alright readers, I'm going to need your help after the break in spending some spare points from a new list I've wrote.
I've been looking over my past battles and seeing where things can change. A few common things creep up and it seems to boil down to two main things;
Being more mobile.
Using screens more effectively.
In all honesty I'm not a fan of option 2. Kroot die too easily, waaaay to easily. The 0 save really hurts like hell in close combat and almost every unit chews them down and pretty much always pursues when the inevitable break comes and then gains more ground on my forces.
So how do I become more mobile? - Well using more tanks and taking out the stationary elements of the army is a start. Broadsides dropped for Hammerheads means my railguns might not be as accurate, however they can move 12 inch to reposition and can also drop templates. Additional anti mech roles can then be picked up by Deathrain or Fireknife suits.
At 1750 I'm looking at fielding the following list, it leaves me with about 167 points left over.
I know people will say "Piranhas" right away but I want to think outside the box on this one, I don't want a tried and tested net list to play with, If I did, i'd just take one from Kirby, Old Shatterhands or Stelek. Each unit needs to be able to try and fill more than 1 role, I want the army to be mobile and flexible, I don't want something to be a 1 trick pony (with the exception of Pathfinders as their shots give me variation)Shasl'el - Twinlinked Missile Pod, Flamer, Hardwired Target Lock - 77
2 x Shas'vre - Twinlinked Missile Pod, Target Array - 126
Shasl'el - Twinlinked Missile Pod, Flamer, Hardwired Target Lock - 77
2 x Shas'vre - Twinlinked Missile Pod, Target Array - 126
3 x Shas'ui - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi Tracker - 186
3 x Shas'ui - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi Tracker - 186
6 x Firewarrior - Devilfish Transport, Disruption Pods, Multi Tracker - 155
6 x Firewarrior - Devilfish Transport, Disruption Pods, Multi Tracker - 155
Hammerhead Gunship - Railgun, Burstcannons, Multi Tracker, Disruption Pods - 165
Hammerhead Gunship - Railgun, Burstcannons, Multi Tracker, Disruption Pods - 165
Hammerhead Gunship - Railgun, Burstcannons, Multi Tracker, Disruption Pods - 165
12 Suits and 5 tanks. So that's the list, what would you spend those last points on and why?
5 comments:
OK – allow me to preface this with the “total n00b” disclaimer. I don’t get to play 40k as much as I’d like. So think of some of my questions & suggestions as less feedback and more as trying to learn and may get you to the answer you want.
Anyway my first question is why are you wasting 20 points on having the bodyguards when you still have an Elite slot open? The only advantages to a ‘vre over a ‘ui is access to wargear that you’re not using and an extra 1 WS and I. So unless you’re planning on these guys being in assault I’d forgo one of the bodyguards and simply has a unit of 2 Shas’ui configured just the same for 106 points which the now independent 'vre can join!
My next question is why are you giving targeting arrays to models with twin-linking? Granted my math hammer may be a bit rusty, but there isn’t much difference that I can see between BS3 twin linked and BS4 twin linked. Drop the Targeting Array for a flamer or a drone controller with some shield or gun drones for wound allocation and/or extra firepower.
I actually do kinda like seeing the Burstcannons on your Hammerheads, but I fear that the extra number of shots will be insignificant next to the loss of the SMS should an enemy start to get too close to your tanks. I think you can potentially save some points from your Devlfish by dropping the Multi-Trackers and simply disengaging your Gun Drones when they come on, unless you actually plan on the drones firing frequently as a weapon from the DF. Plan B can be to make your Devilfish Warfish with an SMS upgrade. This way you also don’t get hosed in KP missions.
Which all brings me to my suggestion for the spare points. Pathfinders are, of course, a standard which your list doesn’t have. I know another option that doesn’t see a lot of play because of their fragility is the Gun Drone Squad. If you treat them as either deep-striking harassers or mobile gunlines I don’t think you’ll be disappointed. I know the BS of 2 sucks but with TL you still function somewhat equivalently to just over BS3.
Finally I really do think an extra scoring unit would be good to see in there, but that’s just me. This way if you’re in an objective-based mission you can control more than just two objectives.
So then, now that I’ve criticized a fair bit let’s see what I can do using your list as a framework.
Shas’el – TL Missile Pod, Flamer, HWTL – 77
Shas’el – TL Missile Pod, Flamer, HWTL – 77
2x Shas’vre – TL Missile Pod, Flamer– 114
3x Shas’ui – Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, MT – 186
3x Shas’ui – Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, MT - 186
2x Shas’ui – TL Missile Pod, Flamer – 94
6x Firewarrior – Devilfish, D-Pod, MT, SMS – 175
6x Firewarrior – Devilfish, D-Pod, MT, SMS – 175
6x Firewarrior – Devilfish, D-Pod, Multi-Tracker - 155
Hammerhead – Railgun, Burst cannons, MT, D-Pod, TA– 170
Hammerhead – Railgun, Burst cannons, MT, D-Pod, TA– 170
Hammerhead – Railgun, Burst cannons, MT, D-Pod, TA– 170
So now you’re up to 12 suits and 6 tanks. No markerlight support which sucks, but I hope that can be offset a bit by the addition of the Targeting Arrays to the Hammerheads making those shots all BS1. Two devilfish have a bit more teeth to them with a third coming in with gun drones. We have a third Elite unit of TL Missile Pod suits, dropping the Targeting Arrays for Flamers. And hey – that spare ‘el in the HQ can easily join them or the other HQ unit.
This just, naturally, one suggestion based on the list you provided and still learning heavily on theme you’re trying to do. Tweak can include dropping the bodyguards all together and buffing the elites to three sets of three + using TL’s to add in HWMT, adding in some shield drones, and/or gun drone squads but – overall – I think I’m semi-happy with this list.
Anyway – now that I’ve written the rough equivalent of a quarter of what I have due this week for my paper I feel I’m in a good writing-zen point so I’ll take that energy and continue my homework :D
I'm with Daedelus in that using HQ bodyguards for Deathrains is a waste when you have a perfectly good (and cheaper) Elite slot open.
As far as the rest of the list, and the leftover points - I'd generally recommend running a third troops choice, but if you want to keep it at two, you'd definitely have the points left over for running a couple of Piranhas. They're great for blocking, and they have melta (because who uses the default burst cannon, really?). In 1750, you could get something like:
Shas'el - Twinlinked Missile Pod, Flamer, Hardwired Target Lock, Hardwired Blacksun Filter - 80
2 x Shas'vre - Twinlinked Missile Pod, Flamer, Hardwider Blacksun Fitler - 120
Shas'el - Twinlinked Missile Pod, Flamer, Hardwired Target Lock, Hardwired Blacksun Filter - 80
3 x Shas'ui - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi Tracker - 186
3 x Shas'ui - Plasma Rifle, Missile Pod, Multi Tracker - 186
3 x Shas'ui - Twinlinked Missile Pod, Flamer - 141
6 x Firewarrior - Devilfish Transport, Disruption Pods, Multi Tracker - 155
6 x Firewarrior - Devilfish Transport, Disruption Pods, Multi Tracker - 155
Piranha - Fusion Blaster, Disruption Pod, Targeting Array - 75
Piranha - Fusion Blaster, Disruption Pod, Targeting Array - 75
Hammerhead Gunship - Railgun, Burstcannons, Multi Tracker, Disruption Pods - 165
Hammerhead Gunship - Railgun, Burstcannons, Multi Tracker, Disruption Pods - 165
Hammerhead Gunship - Railgun, Burstcannons, Multi Tracker, Disruption Pods - 165
13 Suits, 5 Tanks, 2 Piranhas. You get a fair amount of mobility, blocking, anti-tank (both light and heavy), and even get a bit of help in Dawn of War situations. (Admittedly, I threw in the BSFs because I had 14 points left over and needed something to do with them). It's still a bit lighter on troops than I'd prefer, but it would definitely give you a taste of the mobile approach and let you decide if it suits you.
One thing about bodyguard is that the Shas'el/O no longer counts as an Independent Character if they have some. This is slightly usefull for killpoints but much more so in combat so your commander cannot be picked out, much like a Hive Tyrant, as they are not an IC.
I know how you are feeling with making up different Tau lists as you don't just want to copy someone else's but their's usually works very well especially in the case of Tau who are pretty mono-build nowadays.
Anyway, keep trying....
I'd go with Nockergeek's list. Sure, you're trying to go "mobile" but remember even if you are mobile, you are not fast enough to escape from meltaguns and assault units like Eldar can. The Tau need screeners to slow the enemy advance, so they can keep shooting. That's why Piranhas are so essential to a good Tau build.
I'm not a fan of Hammerheads anymore. Lots of points for very little output. Plus big expensive vehicles like this can get destroyed by a single lascannon. IMO, Broadsides are way more effective and can be MSU'd out for maximum potential. Without them, you going to get have trouble against las-auto preds and vendettas.
Knowing the inherent weakness to long range fire, I came up with a 2l mobile list I really like.
3x 2 piranhas with Fusion Blasters
3x 3 Deathrain suits with drones.
3x Railgun Hammerheads
1 commander and as many dumbfish and fire warrior squads you can fit in it.
Wow, lots of food for thought there guys. I don't think i've ever had topic with such well though feedback!
@ Daedalus Nix.
The reason an elite slot is missing is because when the list was originally written, it was 2 Deathrain command teams and 3 Fireknive elite teams. It ended up being slightly too much points.
I tend to give my Deathrains target arrays because I find that their shots are too important to waste. I'll never use a flamer on them so 18 extra points on the unit I want to know that when they shoot, I'm going to hit with as many shots as possible. - My battle reports also show how shit my luck is when it comes to dice rolls so when I write lists I want to reduce as much randomness as I can. As Tau are almost always outgunned I want to make sure when we hit, we hit with everything we can.
@ NockerGeek and OSH.
I know the worth of Piranha's but they're also models I dont own which means I'd have to go out and buy! (and then something else to add to the unpainted list) - As melta with them is a given, to me I'd also have to include target arrays with them. Getting into a prime shooting area only to have them both the to hit rolls would make me and possibly Baby Jebus cry.
I've still never used even 1 in a list before, I guess i'm just too worried that they are prime targets and their points cost is pretty nasty. (I compare them to Attack Bikes or Vypers)
Once again thanks for the feedback and suggestions guys, it's much appreciated!
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